Chinese state media reports plans to survey Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands

Chinese state media reports plans to survey Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands

As if this situation needed any more tension, the state-run China National Radio website reports that there are plans to send a survey team to the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu islands as part of their plans to publish a new map. The intention to step on the islands will surely further exacerbate already heated relations between the two countries over the Japanese-controlled territory that is being claimed by both China and Taipei.

The website reports that Li Pengde, deputy head of the National Administration of Surveying, Mapping and Geoinformation, said that they will send a survey team at an “appropriate time” and if their safety can be guaranteed. He said that aerial images are inadequate for properly mapping out the area. The plans to publish a new map were first announced by China in January, and it planned to include not just the Senkakus but other disputed areas in the East and South China Seas as well. A mapping administration official however said there were some difficulties landing on certain islands, alluding to Japan’s “occupation” of Diaoyu, without necessarily naming the country or island.

Japan’s Coast Guard zealously guards the islands, forbidding anyone, including Japanese nationals, from landing there to plant flags or otherwise. But the waters around the area are seemingly fair game as both Chinese and Japanese marine vessels have played cat and mouse in the past few months. Japan even accused China of locking its weapons radar on one of its ships. China vehemently denied the claims and accused them of trying to ratchet up the tension with slander.

Japan’s Foreign Ministry cautioned China to “exercise restraint” and claimed that China does not need to conduct a land survey because “the islands are undoubtedly Japanese territory.”

[ via Rappler ]
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  • Far East

    This may very well be the excuse the Chinese government needs t o get into a fight, since there is no way the Japanese government will allow that to happen. If the Chinese succeed in landing and doing their mapping, this would be a serious blow to Japan’s sovereignty and control over those islands. Since both Japan and the U.S. have claimed they will refuse any unilateral action that undermine this effective control, this means both Japan and the U.S. are likely to step up power to prevent this landing from happening. Indeed, once landed it would be likely get nasty to get those Chinese officials out. Chinese government would likely fight Japanese Coast Guard attempt to prevent the landing. If this plan by Chinese is put into motion, then I think a localized war like the Falklands with the British vs Argentina would be inevitable.
    China should think twice, since their risk of losing is very high.

    • ozzy

      Build Jaoan Build

      • sanya

        should use nuclear weapons to create another hiroshima in tokyo? are you crazy?

        • ozzy

          wtf are you talking about i never said anything about nukes

    • Bring’em on, baby

      Localized war? What localized war?
      You forget, Argentina didn’t have a nuclear arsenal.

      • Far East

        So what? Do you think the Chinese Government would be as stupid as to scale this war to a full nuclear war?
        Maybe you should think a little bit instead of letting your nationalistic enthusiasm make you write nonsense.

        • Bring’em on, Baby

          @ Far East
          If push comes to shove, the CCP will escalate it to a limited nuclear war fought on the seas. Nonesense? Give it a try.

          • Far East

            Ok, let’s see if you have some brains, or if you are just a troll.
            Try pushing your reasoning a bit further if you can. Tell me what you think will be the repercussion militarily, on China’s economy, in terms of image on the International Community, and on the legal front with the UN charter. Tell me….

          • Bring’em on, Baby

            @ Far East

            The CCP built its legitimacy on nationalism. It cannot lose a war with Japan, especially what the Chinese ordinary people thinks is China’s arch-rival. Therefore, when push comes to shove, say, if China is losing to Japan, or if Japan humiliates China on the seas, there is every reason for the CCP to resort to limited tactical nuclear arms to demolish the Japanese naval fleet. By doing so, China scores a victory and enhances the CCP’s leadership role. The economy may go sour for a moment, but it will rebound, but a victory against Japan more than legitimized the Chinese leadership amongst the people. Politics trumps economics in China.

          • Far East

            And you truly believe that?
            OK, my turn now.
            Assuming there is an armed conflict, Japan will try first to contain it militarily, and if China scales up it power, then by way of the mutual treaty between the U.S. and Japan, the 7th fleet will come in play, and you’d be best to count on it. While all this is happening, the Chinese economy will do a nose dive. Remember that due to the organized riots last September 2012, the China Foreign Direct Investment dropped sharply by 7.3% year-on-year, which we can fairly estimate was a drop of over 12% from September 2012 to January 2013. Imagine now the damage on your economy a localized war would have…. Do you really think investors would want to continue to invest in your country, with the political instability, high inflation vs other countries like Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar, The Philippines, Indonesia? Think again.
            Now, I think it is reasonable to say the drop in FDI would dive further to 20 to 25%, and if so, your GDP growth rate would dive from 5% to -3 to 5%, with the level of inflation, which, for common goods reaches 30% and more, the CCP will quickly end up with a very unstable country. Especially when you factor in the high wealth disparity index (GINI over 0.6) and the high corruption which piss off many Chinese. Many CCP lawmakers makes more money than Mitt Romney! :-)
            And you say, China would fire off a nuke? The instant it does so, a nuke will also be fired upon by way of the nuclear umbrella.
            So, no, I really think China is in a deadlock, because it cannot go back easily and if it goes forward, it will lose.

          • Bring’em On, Baby!!!

            @ Far East
            You know what? Do you honestly believe Japan’s economy will stay intact in a war with China? While China’s FDI drops, Japan’s island economy goes down the tubes. China has a large domestic market, unlike Japan. China also has an inland trade routes with Russia, central Asia, and the MIddle East. And why would the other southeast Asian countries stop trade with China. Many, if not all of these nations, would gladly continue their trade with China and simply watch the show from the sidelines because their economies depend on continued trade with China.
            Like I said, politics ultimately triumphs over economics in China. The CCP will glady nuke out the Japanese maritime fleet rather than be deligitimized by losing a war. America may sent in the 7th fleet, but it will not dare hit the Chinese mainland because it will risk an all-out nuclear war. Even Truman didn’t dare launch bombing campaigns into China at the height of the Cold War.

          • Far East

            Certainly the localized war will badly impact Japan’s economy. There is no question about that, and not just Japan’s economy, but the world economy, since everything is intertwined.
            China’s economy is heavily reliant on FDI. The only reason there is growth now is because 1) there is FDI pouring in China (7.3% less than previous year though), and 2) because China is heavily leveraging debt to sustain a bubble and provide a sensation of growth to attract investors.
            China cannot survive without FDI. Certainly those FDI will not stop, but reduce greatly, you can be sure of that. The issue for the Chinese Government is how much drop, and its impact on the economy.
            Any way you look at it, even if China inflict major loss to the Japanese army in a maritime battle, it will lose. And with the trigger-happy military, the CCP ends up with a very unstable domestic environment.
            There is no question that there would be strong retaliation against China is there is a nuke to the world 3rd biggest economy. You’d be deluding yourself to think otherwise.

          • Bring’em on, Baby!!!

            Come on. You haven’t answered your threat. What is the American 7th fleeet going to do in the Pacific? Launch missiles against the mainland of China? I don’t think so. It’ll be a sitting duck waiting to be hit if it chooses to engage in war. The carrier concept is an outdated WWII mentality. At best, it can work against no-brainer 3rd world countries like Iraq, but against China, I don’t think so.

            In response to your FDI blubber, like I said, politics trumps economics in China.

          • Far East

            So, in your very own autistic view, you think China can nuke a country and that countries like Japan and the U.S. who also have nuke would just stay there and do nothing. I mean, seriously? :-)

          • Bring’em on Baby!!!

            @ Far East

            You’re not reading carefully. I said China will start a limited nuclear war on the seas, whose main targets are naval vessels. America will dare not engage in nuking mainland China, at the most, 7th fleet will take aim at Chinese naval vessels. But then, the 7th fleet becomes mere target practice for the Chinese who shoot from their bases on the mainland of China.

          • Far East

            I did read you, and I maintain what I wrote. Do you think seriously China could nuke Japanese military in the East China Sea and do nothing? You’re kidding right? And if China shoot the 7th fleet, what do you think will happen? Try to combine your eloquence with a bit of reasoning. LUcky thing for China’s own interest that they are not as witless as you.

          • Bring’em on Baby!!!

            @ Far East
            Well, you tell me. China will not fire on the 7th fleet unless it fires first on Chinese naval ships. As for Japanese naval vessels who choose to fire on Chinese vessels, the rest of it is history. Like I said, I am playing out the scenario for you, and you are asking me questions like you don’t know what to say. Think man. THINK.

          • Far East

            Like I said, the Japanese army would likely prevent all this from happening, and if there is a shot fired, it will first be from Chinese military, and as you said, the rest will be history. Over to you buddy: THINK! ;-)

          • Bring’em on Baby!!!

            @ Far East
            Ha ha ha. Looks like I won the debate. Like I said, you gotta think before you blabber on some 7th fleet and self-defense forces. War is ultimately about playing the scenario, and if you ain’t got one, then you haven’t thought it through. I am signing off.

          • Far East

            You won the debate? LOL. Dellusional is what you are, both in your comments and in your scenarios. You don’t seem to grasp what geopolitics is about either.

          • Bring’em on Baby!!!

            @ Far East
            Is this the best you can do? Back up your claims, dude!!!

          • Far East

            Dellusional and short-term memory loss huh?

          • ozzy

            You cant argue with the insane. these guys just wont listen. like my third wife lol

          • Far East

            LOL. I know, but instead I am interested to use the points raised to some degree for the occasional readers who come here.

          • ozzy

            agreed

          • Bill

            Don’t try to fool around the world with false evidence or assumption. China will not fire the 1st shot but when Japan did that, it will declare war with China. CP won’t be so stupid like you. Lastly, US will not fight for JP on the islands. Think twice before putting your commnet.

          • Far East

            Of course, China will fire the first shot, because Japan has time on its side, bu China does not. You see, China is all talk and no action and it is losing credibility. It is becoming more and more like this rogue North Korea it has become associated to. Threatening and bullying.

            You’re just hoping the U.S. will not intervene while you can be sure it will and has every motivation to do so.

            No, it just won’t be so easy, and any scenario China can contemplate, in the end it will lose, because the forces against it and the fronts in which it would have to fight would be just too overwhelming.

          • Bill

            You now learn the trick that China will not fire the 1st shot but JP will create false evidence to attack China just what JP did in the WWII. Your image is so poor and losing creditability on discussion. No wonder all the neighbours Korea, Taiwan, Russsia .and even US all aware Abe going to extreme right direction. Too bad for Asia.

          • Truth

            “Bill”, you’ve been exposed.

            You’re obviously just an adolescent who has been playing too many computer war games and who is having a thrill interrupting adult conversation by making provocative which are generally the complete opposite to the truth.

            You’ve had you fun, now please enjoy your racism somewhere else … unless, of course, what you really want to do is make Chinese people look really stupid and ugly,

          • Bill

            Hi Liar, what lie again you want to comment.

          • Bill

            Hi Liar, what lie you want to share.

          • Guest

            Why did you bring Asia in your comment? Are you saying JP is hostile to Asia? Lol.

          • Guest

            Are the aircraft carriers really out of date? Lol
            CN is attempting to build more carriers for her naval force. Think before say.

  • Tacoma

    Great!, Let’s see who will win this time. Has Chinese had time table doing so?

  • Bill

    This is a right response to JP Abe saying to put personel on the islands. In fact, China has its right to survey its terriotry. Only blame is JP changed the game to nationalize the islands. It is also a respone to Abe agression to China in words and deeds in past months. If Abe wants to build up the relationship with China, start negoitate before it is too late. It is a matter from JP response.

    • A.C.

      Okay, how about this: Tibet was a tributary kingdom to the Qing (that is: Manju, not Han btw.) rule, but it became a part of a modern nation state China only more than half a century after the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands became part of Japan, and not completely peaceful, as you might or might not know. Following your way of arguing, if there is a dispute (which clearly is the case), that gives other parties the right to conduct surveys on the contested territory. Similar story can be told for Xinjiang and others. – But I guess, that’s a completely different case, I guess arguing in favour of China always goes like 自古以来……

      • Bill

        You must learn the islands belong to China or Taiwan because JP supposed to return them to China and Taiwan after the WWII but JP never did. Now JP using SanFranciso Treaty to agrue belongs to them which is rediculous as it was not agreed or signed by China nor Taiwan. How can JP keeps the islands. Don’t be fool by those extreme right wing JP.

        • A.C.

          You didn’t answered to the previously mentioned points, you just stated your personal opinion again. The PR of China does not equal the Chinese empire. The empire didn’t had actual borders, the former world view followed complete different ideas than that of a modern national state. If you pick an arbitrary point in time to justify a claim, you can not argue against people who pick another to refute your argument.

          • Bill

            You must misleading again and we are talking to WWII Postdam Delaration that JP needed to return the istlands to China and Taiwan. So far JP is illegal to keep the islands. You are out of the argument.

          • Whirled Peas

            Bill, Japan fulfilled all of the Potsdam Terms of Surrender.The Allies made sure of that. Japan renounced all Chinese land acquired back to 1894. Senkaku was not Chinese land so Japan did not have to renounce it. The Senkakus were instead put under US occupation along with the rest of Okinawa. Chiang-kai Shek gave the go-ahead for US to be the occupying force till Japan was able to prove to be peaceful and until a new order could be established in Japan. But you didn’t answer A.C.’s question.

          • StrategicSafe

            Does it matter? China won WWII. Last time I checked, the winner gets to
            make the rules. So if China says it was stolen…. guess what. It was
            stolen. Sadly, any doubt goes to the victor. Given imperial japan’s
            shoddy record with aggression and theft and instigating wars via staged
            incidents…Also, the entire process of Japan’s incorporation of
            Diaoyu/Senkaku was filled with subterfuge. If they really believed it
            was terra nullis, then they would’nt have been so cautious with the
            original annexation. The land was stolen, period.

          • Whirled Peas

            “The Three Great Allies are fighting this
            war to restrain and punish the aggression of Japan. They covet no gain for
            themselves and have no thought of territorial expansion”

          • Whirled Peas

            China’s claim to the Senkakus was first made 75 years after Japan annexed them and almost 30 years after it had been agreed by the Allies (including Nationalist China) that they would be occupied as part of Japan’s territory.

            Just because Nationalist China was an ally back in WWII does NOT make valid either the ROC or PRC’s subsequent assertion (in 1971) that the Senkakus were stolen. Any such assertion should be evaluated by the International Court of Justice. If China is confident its claim is valid then it should be able to pass international scrutiny.

            And in case you think Japan should have been carved up among the Allies, you must remember that the guiding principle in the Cairo Communique (1943) was:

            “The Three Great Allies are fighting this war to restrain and punish the aggression of Japan. They covet no gain for themselves and have no thought of territorial expansion”

          • Truth

            Typical. China thinks ‘International Law’ is “subterfuge”.

            Actually, this is a partial summary of why China refuses to accept international law and refuses to accept the International Court of Justice. Being so used to corruption and political influence in its own legal system, it is paranoid that the international system is just the same. It sees the world through the filters of its own experiences and poses the ICJ as an American conspiracy against China.

            These people see the world through the filters of their own cultural experiences and believe the rest of the world, of which they have no experience or understanding, is the same.

            But it is good for Westerners to see what Japan faces with its neighbors.

            StrategicSafe, quote for us the International Law that says, “the winner gets to make the rules”.

            I think what you mean is the literary observation that “the winner gets to write the history” but that is not a law, just a political truism.

            As to the idea that “China won WWII” … I have to ask, which China? Do you know anything about history at all?

          • A.C.

            Then, let’s have a look at the exact wording of the Potsdam Declaration, shall we? (8) “… Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and (!!)such minor islands as we determine(!!).” Now that was specific, eh?- Aw, why was I even trying? …

          • Bill

            You are misleading again. There is no specific Seukaku islands included in Potsdam Declaration. Don’t foget Taiwan and the islands are specified in the treaty for the return. Please study the detail again.

          • A.C.

            Oh boy – is that supposed to be a line of argument?

            Bill: “we are talking to WWII Postdam Delaration that JP needed to return the istlands”

            Bill (later):”There is no specific Seukaku islands included in Potsdam Declaration”

            So, the issue should be resolved according to the Potsdam Declaration, because – uhm, it’s not specified in the Potsdam Declaration (“such minor islands as we determine”)?!? And when I quote from it, you tell me I’m wrong, I should have a look at the wording? Aww…

            Seriously, dude, 你的脑子里满有屎!– I’m off, find somebody else to play.

          • Bill

            Your wording is misleading: “Now that was specific, eh?- Aw, why was I even trying? …” What are you telling…Please use better English. Then your point agrees that JP should return the islands under Postdam.

          • Truth

            This is an incorrect. I am sorry but you propagandistic level is too low and two transparent.

            Acceptance by repetition really only works in cult-like environments ruled by fear, such as mainland China.

            Taiwan has, under international law, established grounds for self-sovereingnty on top of the claim to sovereignty Japan gave it in the Cairo Declaration that the Potsdam refers to.

            If China has a problem with Taiwan, then the only place to take the matter is the International Court of Justice.

            The CPC is not the rightful heir to Chinese wealthy, history or culture. They are just a collection of mobs, gangs, who have stolen it.

            Was there true democracy in China, the CPC would finished over night … which is why there will never be true democracy in China and why their “China” will never recognize International Law.

            Criminals don’t like courts.

          • Truth

            “Learn” to a Chinese propagandist means “accept what we say without question”. Ask the inmates of the laojiao who are interned for years without trial or evidence based purely on what they thought (as in differently from Communist Party).

            The Communist Party of China (CPC) might be able to control how its citizens think through it tools of absolute fear but they don’t work in the free world.

            Killing off, imprisoning or driving out the majority of China’s intellectual classes does help establish a single party slave state control but it’s not acceptable in the free world.

            Do Chinese citizens not wish to be free?

            Two of the greatest frauds the CPC have carried out are,

            a) claiming to the rightful inheritors of Chinese history, culture and wealth
            b) presenting the historic China as if it was a single, unitary, benign State.

            It never was and they are basically just a collection of gangs of corrupt and mediocre warlords who have either killed off the opposition or driven it out and by opposition I do not mean the KMT but the reasonable, intelligent, cultured and hard working Chinese who have done very very well and caused very little problems in the rest of the world where they have gone.

            In the Potsdam declaration, the Japanese recognized the desires of the CPC to have Taiwan, yes, but it also referred back to the Cairo Declaration which stated territories shall be restored to the “Republic of China” (KMT/Taiwan).

            Whether the sovereignty of Taiwan was formally transferred or not is disputable and the place to dispute it is in the International Court of Justice that the CPC so deeply wish to avoid ever entering and refuse to accept its authority.

            The PRC is not the RoC.

            The CPC want Taiwan and the Senkaku not for any wonderful or mysterious historic or cultural reason, but for purely practical purposes;

            a) their financial value, and
            b) their strategic value.

            Entering into a discussion of mythic and mysterious historical references and puffed out patriotic pride is to be distracted from the truth.

            a) it’s about the money (which won’t go to the people of China but will feed the CPC/PLA crony machine), and
            b) It’s about the military/strategic value in their mostly covet struggle with the USA.

            Of course, for Japan this is of interest because of the value of the maritime access the East China Sea.

            Having joint USA-Japan presence and an independent Taiwan all of whom largely accept and adhere to International Law is the only way of ensure those lanes are kept own, and kept open for Japan to feed itself and its industries.

          • Far East

            Awesome answer!! Thanks for that!

          • Bill

            You are just poisoned by the extreme right JP thought and you are just acting them to fool around the world. It just like Abe is often heard speaking about redrafting the constitution and rewriting Japan’s wartime history, many Japanese businessmen are wary that Abe might shift focus to his security and historical revisionist agenda. Abe is a good example going to extreme right direction even alarming US and neighbours. Even Korea, Taiwan, and Russia show negative response to Abe policy. Don’t just using China as an excuse for JP to expand the imperial military army. It only brings disaster to JP.

          • Truth

            Are the democracy, human rights and the rule of law in Japan “extreme right wing” to you?

            Yes, following the violent and racist government and police orchestrated riots in China, Japanese businessmen are wary …

            Wary of remaining in China to do business, closing them down and planning on moving elsewhere.

            I think you’ve just proven you are in America because no one but Americans fixate over political rulers in such an immature manner. In Japan, it is the bureaucracy that runs the country, not which ever prime minister happens to be passing by at the moment.

            So, if you are in America, what is the cause of your race hate against Japan?

            I am asking you honestly and directly.

    • Truth

      Sadly, I don’t think the Chinese propagandists have any interest in discussion.

      Their strategy is merely throwing as much shit as possible in the hope some of it sticks, confuses, or puts people off looking at the matter closely.

      With China at present there are both political stress between opposing factors and widespread regional unrest which are not widely reported in the Western media.

      Focusing attention on Japan and the Senkaku issue it a convenient distraction and an attractive one considering the scale of marine and gas resources in the Japanese EEZ.

      They have no intention of playing by the rules. They have little idea of what it even means.

      • Bill

        There are so many extreme right JP trying to promote their change the histroy, promote false evidence….. in order to achieve the past glory of imperial JP army. “As Abe is often heard speaking about redrafting the constitution and rewriting Japan’s wartime history, many Japanese businessmen are wary that Abe might shift focus to his security and historical revisionist agenda.” Learn to respect the neighbours: China, Taiwan, Korea, and Russia.

        • Guest

          I am just wondering if JP could hold on with her patience if CN was really landing their men on the island. JP seem to be too weak to defend while the US has too much tied business with CN. I feel really sorry for JP and all CN’s neighbours, living next to CN must be very stressful.

          • Far East

            Not to worry. JP maritime force is overwhelming both in power, number but also in experience. Even without the help of the powerful U.S. 7th fleet, Japan could easily defeat China in a maritime war.
            But it is not just about war, but also about its economic and political implication, which in this case would mean tremendous loss either way you look at it for China.

          • Let the Buyer Beware

            @ Far East
            China will not lose this war. Push China hard enough and you incur the wrath of a billion people against an unapologetic island who chooses to worship its own imperial past.

          • Far East

            Yeah, yeah, blah blah blah. You’ve been watching too much of that North Korea channel on Youtube it seems :-)
            What you dream of happening and what will happen is not the same thing.

          • Let the Buyer Beware

            @disqus_XIKtTPGcHT:disqus
            ..and you been watching too much of 007??? Ha ha ha and
            and for you, what you dream of happening and what can and will happen is not the same thing.

          • Far East

            Are you kidding? I love James Bond, but I have to admit the last one, Skyfall was not that great. I know it got censored in China, but since you are Chinese probably either based on the west coast of the U.S. or in Hong Kong, you are not too much concerned by this.
            Anyway, getting back to the topic. I don’t dream of anything. I just look at the facts, and the facts are that either way, China loses. It is increasingly entering a deadlock. A sort of checkmate if you will.

          • Let the Buyer Beware

            @ Far East
            The deadlock is what is dangerous….push comes to shove….see my above post.
            And stop labelling people who disagree with you as Chicoms, commies, etc. etc. What are you? Right-wing nuthead? or Japanese apologist?

          • Far East

            Rational people would not have such radical point of view you have. This is typical of China paid shills. It’s just common knowledge on many forums now.

          • The Chicoms are coming !!!

            @ Far East

            Wow. The Chicoms are coming !!!!! HAAAAA!!!!

          • Let the Buyer Beware!!!

            @ Far East

            Right-wing nut. ha ha ha

          • Far East

            Not even close :-)

          • ozzy

            spoken like a true wingnut

          • Far East

            Yes, I’ve noticed. All mouth and no brains. Nicely brainwashed and no opinion for themselves, just repeating what they have being told.

          • Truth

            Most poor Chinese would sell their kidney to be able to come and live and work in Japan (if they had not been forced to sell it already).

            Most wealthy and upper class Chinese diaspora love Japanese fashion, culture, the quality of service and so on.

            It leaves me suspecting that most of these angry voices are young Asian-Americans who have been infected by stereotypical American racist propaganda against Japan, and the aggressiveness of American society, and yet at the same time feel inferior within White dominated American society.

            Their only outlet is to relieve themselves against a Japan they know nothing about and appreciate less, especially as Japanese tend not to fight back.

            I find it hard to believe they are even overseas students. I doubt few normal Mainland Chinese would be able to access a website like this and read such alternative opinions, and I doubt State controlled activists would make such a bad job of it.

          • Far East

            Yes, I agree. Those are a bunch of ABCs. I see many of them when I travel on the west coast. I think they are searching for their roots, and are easily swayed by nationalistic messages and other lies coming from China. My message to them? “Hey if you advocate China so much, be consistent, go ahead and live there! “;-)

          • Don’t scare us away

            @ Far East
            No sir. ABCs are here to STAY to enlighten you folks : ::::)

          • Far East

            Most ABCs are alright, being true american and faithful to the U.S.A., but those renegades that advocate China while enjoying the comfort of a great democracy are just a sorry bunch of hypocrites.

          • Don’t scare us away

            @ Far East
            The hypocrite is the American go goes about defending war criminals in Yasukuni Shrine and the Japanese whitewashing of their history in WW2. Your grandpa would be ashamed of you, sonny.

          • Far East

            LOL, where did you see that? Don’t believe all the rubbish those Chinese officials tell you… ;-)

          • Don’t scare us away

            @ Far East
            Oh, I get it. You’re an undercover Japanese collaborator.

          • Far East

            And why do you need to impersonate Whirled Peas?

          • Whirled Peas

            Hi FE, I’m thinking it’s the software again. Too many comments flooding in at once overloading the system. Makes for confusion.

          • Far East

            Nope. Not even close.

          • Don’t scare us away

            @ Far East
            Yes, that’s what you are. Collaborator.

          • Far East

            If “collaborator” means friend of Japan, yes, by all means I am!

          • Bill

            You are just speaking on behalf of JP. JP is afraid to get to war with China and trys to get US for support. Without US support, JP will surely lose in this conflict. But US is not so stupid to step in the wars of China and JP. There is no solution unless JP starts to negotiate with China. This suitation will damage more on JP economy as JP is losing the China, Taiwan and Korea market. In the end, JP goes no where. Even worse, Abe is not focus on economy growth rather on constitution change and rewrite the war histroy.

          • Far East

            First off, no I am just an individual and my statements are my own opinions.
            That being said, I think you are just doing some wishful thinking and having a psychotic episode.

        • Truth

          As you know, Taiwan has, on the whole a very good impression of Japan and maintains good relationships, as it does with Russia. The Korea people largely like Japan and come shopping and to experience the high level of service.

          You have a corrupt and poisonous view of the world.

          There a difference between seeking to clarify an objective view of the past and glorify the Meiji military. Actually, very, very few Japanese do that at all. No more than in any other nation, perhaps less than most.

          To seek an objective view of the past is not synonymous with right wing at all. It is what free thinking academics do. I understand that the idea of free thinking academics might be strange to a Chinese perspective but it is true.

          True your best to apply immature and erroneous smears and slurs and you will lose credibility quickly. This is the free world. People have access to information and a free press.

          In comparison to the various Chinese belligerents of the time, everything from warlords to criminal gangs run by drug lords, to the Meiji military was a modern, well trained, principled and uniformed army, which many Chinese also fought with. One of the problems in those conflicts were that the Chinese belligerents were not, especially outside of Jiang Jieshi and the KMT.

          If you wish to discuss this aspect of mutual history in a calm, respectful and objective manner, I am happy to do so.

          • Zhijian Xi

            The difference between Germany and Japan is Germans will not defend Natzi, While Japan will defend past Imperial military. Germans does not worship Hitler, while Japanese worship Yasokuni Shrine. Explain this to the world.

          • Far East

            You need to get your facts straight if you are honnest.

            The Yasukuni shrine, it is an old rhetoric. This shrine is privately owned, and honor the war dead, not the war criminals. Do you see the difference? Unfortunately, among all the innocent war dead, there are 14 class A war criminals. So let’s put this in perspective shall we?

            There are 2,466,532 people contained in the shrine’s Book of Souls and out of which 1,068 convicted of war crimes. That’s 0.04%. Out of those 1,068, 14 were class A war criminals. This represents 0.0006%!!
            (Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Yasukuni_Shrine)

            If you ask me, I think there should be zero of those 14 there, but freedom of religion is an important concept in free countries, and the fact remains those visits made at the Yasukuni shrine were done in a private capacity, not as official government business. Thus, do not mix Japan Government policy and private religious belief.

            On the nationalist rants, I think you are not well positioned to make critics given the revisionist and nationalistic education Chinese Government has domestically…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHJRiYtKF64

          • Truth

            @google-21153f1beeb7da46476e8d87c5362271:disqus

            “Worship” is the wrong translation.

            Shrines are there for the living to give them comfort and help them live. They offer individuals many types of solace for their own personal losses. Old ladies who lost young lovers in the war, children who lost their fathers; almost all of the people who go there are utterly innocent and acting on a purely human level, and they becoming much older now.

            Every country has their memorial to old solders, war dead and so on. Why should not Japan in its own way?

            It seems like you vacillating wildly between old Chinese superstitions (which also exist in Japan) and modern day Communist anti-religious materialism and are trying to understand Japanese tendencies through them.

            Do you really believe there are 2.4 million “gods” in the Yasukuni? If you don’t believe in kami or spirits, then there is nothing there.

            Mostly, the Tokyo Tribunal was a political farce and hardly worthy being called a legal court. It was theater. A largely irrational sacrifice to satisfy tribal bloodlusts and, like many of the re-adjustments designed to remove leadership threats to American hegemonic rule of the region.

            I say “irrational” because if you look at who they let go free, because they were useful to the Americans, and it ignored how the Allies had violated the laws of war “dreadfully”, it would make you wonder.

            The Americans got the PR and ability to brand Japan and disempower the Japanese leadership they wanted.

            I don’t see why defending one’s nation against American aggression and foreign policies is a “crime”, legally it is not, but we have seen 70 years since of the same dynamic being played ruthless over South America, NE Asia, Asia Minor and the Caribbean.

            Oppose America and you are instantly labelled a “terrorist”.

            That is a sweeping statement which should be explained a better but if I was a pro-Communist China campaigner, I would be cautious because they are coming for you next and you will be treated the same.

          • Creative solution

            @ Far East
            The Japanese should get creative and get rid of those war criminals who taint the souls of the war dead. Tokyo should be buying the Yasukuni shrine instead of buying the Senkakus; nationalize it, and cleanse it of its war criminals. Then you can say for certain it is in honor of the war dead.

          • Far East Lie

            @ Far East
            Well, even you admit if you were in charge (which you are not), you would get rid of the war criminals in the Yasukuni shrine. Well, I can tell you there are far more war criminals in that shrine. 14 people are not going to be able to kill and masacre an entire city or province, or region. If the Japanese are smart (which they are not), they would get CREATIVE and throw out the war criminals from the shrine and thereby disabuse themselves of the stigma of celebrating war crimes. I think it’s time the CREATIVE Americans help the Japanes along. It will enhance their reputation in Asia.

          • Far East

            “Far East Lie”? Seriously? LOL, too funny.
            Anyway, sayin’ is one thing, but provin’ is a totally another. Unless you can prove from reputable source there are more than 14 class A war criminals in the Yasukuni shrine, and by so doing proving the Wikipedia got it wrong, you’d best better put a lit on it.
            A concept that I reckon you don’t understand is that in free country like Japan, people have the fundamental right of religion, right of speech, etc. This shrine is private, and nothing in the Japanese law prevents it from existing.
            People are free to go or not to go. They are free to criticize it, or support it. That’s just people choice. There is just no official support for this shrine, and when some government member go there, they have stated repeatidely they do so in private capacity.
            Try to understand the concept of people’s freedom. Not like in People Liberation Army, huh? There is no freedom there ;-)

          • Far East Lie

            @ Far East

            Your source is Wikipedia?????

            For a moment, I thought you were some Asia expert with a Ph.D from Harvard. Well, it’s people’s choice to go to whatever shrine they choose to, AND so it is the Chinese people’s choice to become very angry at these actions, The Japanese government does not even condemn the war criminals in the shrine, like America would of the KKK. That pisses Chinese and Korean people of. If Japanese government is smart, then it would get CREATIVE and buy the Yasukuni Shrine, nationalize it, and clean out the war criminals. That is SMART diplomacy and will further Japan’s reputation. Unfortunately, people like you only seek to further stalemate the debate and justify the Yasukuni Shrine as it exists now.

          • Far East

            Sure, Chinese can get angry, but who cares seriously? I don’t read any other nation complaining about this, because they respect freedom of religion.
            And of course, the JP government condems those criminals and has repented over its past. Check out the JP Foreing Ministry website. You are the last one to now it seems, or you have memory loss problem.
            Your suggestion about “buying” the shrine, is the Chinese way, ie the way of disrepecting people’s property, people’s right to liberty and freedom of belief.
            Geez, you have so much to catch up on the rest of the world!

          • Far East Lie

            @ Far East
            Well, sir….Japan’s nationalizing the islands….hm…seems pretty much the Chinese way…..
            If Japan government had truly repented, it will not try to whitewash its past atrocities in China, Korea and the rest of Asia. So no, there is no genuine repentence.

          • Far East

            “try to whitewash its past atrocities in China, Korea and the rest of Asia”
            If you have proof from reputable sources of what you claim, I am interested, otherwise I’d have to see this as just another attempt to smear Japan using the old rethoric.

          • Whirled Peas

            Believe it or not, it would have been worse had Shintaro Ishihara bought the islands and built upon them.

          • ozzy

            No repentance for Chinas atrocities in Tibet

          • Far East Lie

            Oh yeah, South Koreans hate the Yasukuni Shrine too.

          • Far East

            LOL, maybe some right wing extremists, but otherwise, I can tell you that most love Japan, and vice versa :-)

          • Far East Lie

            @ Far East
            Well, deep down, you know where the truth lies. ::::)

          • Far East

            No need to go “deep down”. Just go to South Korea, meet Korean, discuss with Japanese about Korean and it is for everyone to see the people of those 2 countries like each other despite all the political games that goes on sometimes.

          • ozzy

            who the Japanese at any shrine is NOT chinamoodys business

          • Whirled Peas

            Throw out the war criminals from Yasukuni? There are no bodies at Yasukuni. Only purified souls. I don’t think it’s possible to exorcise their souls!

            You know, it the propagandists on behalf of China and Korea who have imbued Yasukuni Shrine with a meaning that it does not possess, to create just one more issue around which to say Japan is not sorry. The thing is they know very well that Japan is sorry, but they want to keep the anger stoked.

            Yasukuni was built 1869 under Shinto religious tradition to commemorate all who died serving the Emperor. It includes the souls of not just soldiers, but nurses, factory workers, non-Japanese who fought for Japan and also invaluable animals. People don’t go there to worship war criminals, nor to glorify war. Many go to pray for peace and for the souls of those who gave their lives for Japan (wisely or unwisely). Many go to speak to the souls of those close to them whom they lost. And by the way, the Japanese didn’t massacre an entire city Nanking. That’s why there were so many who lived to tell the tale. Every other Chinese person I know has a grandmother or great aunt who survived. By exaggerating you mock a serious event.

          • Far East Lie

            The cleanse the shrine of the souls of the war criminals!!! It’s just smart diplomacy and the right thing to do.. why are you dragging your feet?

          • Whirled Peas

            Exorcism is not MY particular specialty :-) Plus, I wouldn’t know how to perform the rites in the Japanese language.

          • Truth

            @bb5e4227fcb009e150887392d829d35c:disqus

            Do you really believe souls exist at all?

            Do you really believe there are 2 million living in the Yasukuni?

            I know in Tokyo apartments are very small but not that small.

            Perhaps you want the priests to cast them down to hell too?

          • Truth

            Sorry, BeoB. Software error. I wrote that to Far East Lie.

          • Far East Lie

            @ Truth

            Hey, if it helps, cast’em to hell. I applaud that.

          • Far East Lie

            @ Truth

            If cleansing or exorcising is what is needed, then so be it. The whole thing (shrine) is a magical hocus-pocus, but it does carry symbolic significance and therefore yield political and cultural significance. For Japan, it will disabuse the nation of the stigma.

          • Truth

            The symbolic significance is that all souls can be purified and made whole and perfect again.

            If you believe the souls was bad, then they have been made pure again.

            If you don’t believe souls can be made pure again, then it is better that they are kept in a shrine where they can be prayed for to be made better.

            The Tribunal was a onesided political showpiece, one of America’s stepping stones to political and military domination over NE Asia. In truth, they are no different from any human being but the fact is, they are dead and the despots you should be concerned about are the ones that are alive, causing conflict and leading the region to discord and conflict and refuse the rule of law.

            Those spirits no longer exist in Japan, so stop pointing. Come and look for yourself. Come to Japan and meet the people and see what you find yourself.

            Of course, you will have to wait a little until the clouds of hatred in your own mind die down and you will have to clean the lenses in front of your own eyes so you can see clearly but I encourage you to try.

            Stop living in a fantasy and the past.

          • JamesStone

            We just got a couple return from JP for vacation and turned out the family doctor requested them not to have baby in coming 5 years. Why? Because of the radiation effect. I don’t want like you staying at such high radiation country and you are welcome to come to States to see our sytem which is much better than you. Open your mind and no more using States as your support. We talk business not agression.

          • Truth

            Tell that to the Vietnamese, the Cambodians, the Indonesian, the Philippines, the Cubans, the Hondurans, the Panamians, the Dominicans, the Haitians twice, the Nicaraguans, the Grenadians, the Koreans, the Angolians, the Palestinians, the Iraqi, the Afgani and, of course, the Japanese; although it has to be said the Japanese have now embraced America.

            How many regimes run by mass murderers and torturers has the USA propped up “looking after its business” and destroying other peoples?

            Of course, with respect to Japan I was talking historically and referring to America uninvited and aggressive threats which opened it up.

            Is that what you call “business”? Pointing guns at people, crushing trade unions, deciding other nations’ policies for them?

            As for your silly comment about radiation, where did your friends go?

            Do you honestly believe the entire country is irradiated?

            * By the way, those were American nuclear reactors which we were forced to have, so don’t blame the Japanese people.

          • Christopher

            Your name is not James stone, your English sucks, just like all the other Chinese propaganda trolls on here.

          • Hanson

            No official number of the innocent Chinese were killed by comrade Mao, some are saying approx 30 mil while the other is estimating 70 million. It was impossible for Mao to kill that many by himself without the help from his comrades. Where are Mao and his comrades position in CN? Should they be announced as criminal by CN gov?

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Bras/100000593270414 Jason Bras

            yawn yawn… let’s focus on making $$$, there are bigger fish to fry than messin’ with some rocks near taiwan…..the rocks ain’t pay the bills. let’s chill, make $$$. the best solution is let Taiwan take ownership, it is near taiwan, cheaper to patrol from taiwan than from china or japan. also, it cools down the temperature. taiwan is friendly to both japan and china. everybody goes home happy… that’s a “happy ending”.

          • Far East

            It’s true that Japan and Taiwan have a healthy relationship, but I think there is no reason for Japan to give away part of its territory to either Taiwan or communist China. Instead, what I would recommend is a Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) to jointly finance the exploitation of the era in exchange of a treaty that forever give up any claim on this Japanese territory.
            Since Taiwan is only after fishery rights, and China is really after the oil and natural gas there is under, everybody would be happy. Of course, only if China can keep its contractual obligations.

          • ozzy

            Stupid idea China would take them away. I say give them to Guatemala or a neutral country on a 100 year lease and split the profits from fishing and hydrocarbons with Japan

    • Christopher

      Another guy with an American name who can’t actually speak English.

  • Truth

    The Senkaku are legal and peacefully acquired, Japanese territories. Terra nullius which Japan claimed by a pain staking attention to international law in 1985. They acquisition has no connection to any war or conflict with any of its neighbors.

    China has no legal claim on the islands and refuses to take its dispute to through the proper channels of resolution, the International Court of Justice. China refuses to accept the authority of the Court and International Law.

    It also had no such claims until gas reserves were found in the Japanese EEZ surrounding the islands. In official Communist Party of China map printed in the 1960s just before the discovery, the islands are clearly shown as being Japanese. They have only ever been previously occupied by Japanese only.

    China bases its claims to the island on the rights given by an unofficial Empress Dowagers giving permission to a herbalist to gather sea lavender from the islands which were marker points on the ocean routes between China, Taiwan and Ryukyuan Islands only. Routes Chinese sailors seldom sailed. It is thought as few as 50 times.

    Such evidence would not sustain a claim according to International Law.

    The recent acquisition of the lease rights have not effected its status which, since 1895, has always been as Japanese territory.

    There is insufficient evidence to support they were ever Chinese or Taiwanese which is why China refuses to go to the ICJ and accept its judgement.

    The China government has recently been assiduously removing 10,000s of maps from the public domain in China and off websites in order to re-write their history and current territorial claims.

    It is currently has 20 other similar disputes with other nations or peoples. Beyond a claim on natural resources, behind these dispute is a hidden war between China and the USA which is seeking to contain it.

    • usan

      The Senkaku’s were acquired Japanese terrorites through invasion, blood and murder. Google on Wikipedia the Invasion of Ryukyu. I guess since only a few people were killed that makes it okay for Japan to pretend they own it, and to say no one ELSE has the right to invade.

      Remember, do not profit off of blood and murder, and do not hide the truth.

      • Truth

        No, the Senkakus were acquired through 10 years of very peaceful, boring surveying and bureaucracy, following a kindly gentleman from Kyushu’s polite and formal request to do business on them.

        Check your history. You’ll find I am correct

        http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/senkaku/index.html

        Invasion of Ryukyu was in 1609, the acquisition of the Senkakus was in 1895 almost 300 years later, and the Satsuma clan did not represent the whole of Japan.

        Generally, I am not in favor of using the English Wikipedia as a resource as it is over run with Korean nationalists and belligerent American military historians many of whom have a very one sided view of history.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

    US and Japan had ignored two WW II treaties, requiring Japan to return Chinese territories, stolen or taken by violence, to China. And, with the 2013 Defense Authorisation Act, US and Japan had subtly declared war on China.

    Conquest or annexation was recognised as a method of territorial acquisition in the past but has been deemed illegal under international law at least when the United Nations Charter came into force in 1945. And the claim by Japan that the islands were “terra nullius” is just a handy legal excuse used by the Japanese government to cover the aggressive nature of its plunder of Chinese territory.

    According to Meiji era documents unearthed by Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times, in 1885, Japan acknowledged China as the owner. It seems pretty clear that Japan effectively stole the islands as spoils of war in 1895.

    Japan had lied. There was a dispute over the islands. US Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, said that at the time of signing the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between Japan and the People’s Republic of China in 1978, China and Japan had decided to temporarily lay aside
    the issue of Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands sovereignty.

    In conclusion, Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands belong to China. And so, China has every right to carry out a survey.

    • Far East

      And you have conveniently ignored the Treaty of San Francisco of 1952 with 50 nations that defined Japan as it is today with the Senkaku islands :-)

      And there is even th same treaty with Taiwan with the Treaty of Taipei signed in 1952. The Postdam Declaration of 1945, made at gun point was rather nothing more than what it says, ie a declaration, but China uses this only because it is convenient to support its claim, but unfortunately this is incomplete and cherry-picked biased historical data.

      As for the history on the Senkaku, the Chinese Government is trying to refer to some historical documents that mention those islands as a marker in their route to the Ryukyu (Okinawa, part of Japan), but emissary from China at the time used that route only 23 times during 507 years while the Ryukyu people went to China using their route 580 times from 1372 to 1879…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnlr_OBN2uw

      And they should have the honesty of recognizing their true agenda, which is to seize the underground resources those Senkakus islands have. That’s right, a United Nations Economic Commission for Asia and the Far East (ECAFE) (http://www.unescap.org) report in 1969 stated there is a strong possibility for petroleum and natural gas to be under those islands. Foreign estimates of potential oil reserves on the shelf have gone as high as 100 billion barrels. (Saudi Arabia has “proven and probable” oil reserves of 261.7 billion barrels and the United States 22 billion). The following year, China started claiming the Senkaku islands as theirs.

      The most promising area identified was “a 200,000 square kilometer area just north of Taiwan, or almost exactly the location” of the Senkaku islands. See K.O. Emery et al., Geological Structure and Some Water Characteristics of the East China Sea and the Yellow Sea, 2 UNECAFE/CCOP TECH. BULL. 3 (1969). A copy of the ECAFE report is available here: http://www.gsj.jp/data/ccop-bull/2-01.pdf

      The report concludes on page 41 “A high probability exists that the continental shelf between Taiwan and Japan may be one of the most prolific oil reservoirs in the world.”
      Talk about hypocrisy….

      Bottom line, it was legally terra nullius ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius ), ie no proven trace of being inhabited or controlled, Japan rightfully integrated it in its territory after performing surveys since 1885. China did not care, because they had better things to do at the time ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_Dynasty#Fall_of_the_dynasty ), Subsequently the communist Chinese Government did not care either and Mao was conducting his so-called ‘Great Leap Forward’ mass killing millions of Chinese (estimated to 45 million death between 1958 and 1961 and followed by the Cultural Revolution in 1966, motivated by power struggles within the Party http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China#People.27s_Republic_of_China_.281949.E2.80.93present.29 ). There are even official communist China maps showing those islands as Japanese: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PRCmap-senkakuislands.jpg

      Source: Wikipedia. Section of 1969 map published by the People’s Republic of China, showing and identifying the “Senkaku Islands” as Japanese territory.

      This map was revealed by the Washington Time: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/sep/15/inside-the-ring-145889960/

      It is now under the effective sovereignty and control of Japan, and there is nothing that China can do about it. Legally speaking Judge Max Huber of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated that the key aspect for the establishment of a State sovereignty is the “continuous and peaceful display of territorial sovereignty” (The Netherlands v U.S.A. ‘Island of Palmas Case’ [1928] ICJ V II 839). This fits well with the current code of conduct of Japan with regards to its reaction to the threats made to its sovereignty.

      That’s the ugly truth. Enjoy.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

        It is very clear from Kiyoshi Inoue, a notable Japanese historian, who recorded in his book “History and Sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands,” that Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands belong to China. According to Meiji era documents unearthed by Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times, in 1885, Japan acknowledged China as the owner. It seems pretty clear that Japan effectively stole the islands as spoils of war in 1895.

        Conquest or annexation was recognised as a method of territorial acquisition in the past but has been deemed illegal under international law at least when the United Nations Charter came into force in 1945. And the claim by Japan that the islands were “terra nullius” is just a handy legal excuse used by the Japanese government to cover the aggressive nature of its plunder of Chinese territory.

        • Far East

          I read this article from Kristof too, and the document it refers to does in no way states the Japanese recognized ownership by the Qing empire over the islands. The author even writes: “China seemed to acquiesce to Japanese sovereignty between 1945 and 1970″. Those documents this article refers to merely states what even now the Japanese recognizes as historical fact ( http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/senkaku/fact_sheet.html ), i.e. that there was a tense political situation at that time (remember there was soon after the sino-Japan war and the Shimonoseki Treaty in 1895), and the document highlight the prudence of the Japanese Government at that time in this tight political context.

          Sorry to break your dreams.

          There has been the Treaty of San Francisco signed in 1951 by 50 nations making and recognizing what Japan is today, and even with Taiwan with the Treaty of Taipei signed in 1952. The Postdam Declaration of 1945, made at gun point was rather nothing more than what it says, ie a declaration, but China uses this only because it is convenient to support its claim, but unfortunately this is incomplete and cherry-picked biased historical data.

          As for the history on the Senkaku, the Chinese Government is trying to refer to some historical documents that mention those islands as a marker in their route to the Ryukyu (Okinawa, part of Japan), but emissary from China at the time used that route only 23 times during 507 years while the Ryukyu people went to China using their route 580 times from 1372 to 1879…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnlr_OBN2uw

          And they should have the honesty of recognizing their true agenda, which is to seize the underground resources those Senkakus islands have. That’s right, a United Nations Economic Commission for Asia and the Far East (ECAFE) (http://www.unescap.org) report in 1969 stated there is a strong possibility for petroleum and natural gas to be under those islands. Foreign estimates of potential oil reserves on the shelf have gone as high as 100 billion barrels. (Saudi Arabia has “proven and probable” oil reserves of 261.7 billion barrels and the United States 22 billion). The following year, China started claiming the Senkaku islands as theirs.

          The most promising area identified was “a 200,000 square kilometer area just north of Taiwan, or almost exactly the location” of the Senkaku islands. See K.O. Emery et al., Geological Structure and Some Water Characteristics of the East China Sea and the Yellow Sea, 2 UNECAFE/CCOP TECH. BULL. 3 (1969). A copy of the ECAFE report is available here: http://www.gsj.jp/data/ccop-bull/2-01.pdf

          The report concludes on page 41 “A high probability exists that the continental shelf between Taiwan and Japan may be one of the most prolific oil reservoirs in the world.”

          Talk about hypocrisy….

          Bottom line, it was legally terra nullius ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius ), ie no proven trace of being inhabited or controlled, Japan rightfully integrated it in its territory after performing surveys since 1885. China did not care, because they had better things to do at the time ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_Dynasty#Fall_of_the_dynasty ), Subsequently the communist Chinese Government did not care either and Mao was conducting his so-called ‘Great Leap Forward’ mass killing millions of Chinese (estimated to 45 million death between 1958 and 1961 and followed by the Cultural Revolution in 1966, motivated by power struggles within the Party http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China#People.27s_Republic_of_China_.281949.E2.80.93present.29 ). There are even official communist China maps showing those islands as Japanese: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PRCmap-senkakuislands.jpg

          Source: Wikipedia. Section of 1969 map published by the People’s Republic of China, showing and identifying the “Senkaku Islands” as Japanese territory.

          This map was revealed by the Washington Time: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/sep/15/inside-the-ring-145889960/

          It is now under the effective sovereignty and control of Japan, and there is nothing that China can do about it. Legally speaking Judge Max Huber of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) stated that the key aspect for the establishment of a State sovereignty is the “continuous and peaceful display of territorial sovereignty” (The Netherlands v U.S.A. ‘Island of Palmas Case’ [1928] ICJ V II 839). This fits well with the current code of conduct of Japan with regards to its reaction to the threats made to its sovereignty.

          That’s the ugly truth. Enjoy.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            If there was no ambiquity as to the sovereignty of the islands, would there be a need for the then leaders of the two countries, Japan’s PM Tanaka Kakue and China’s Premier Zhou Enlai, in 1972, to discuss the issue? There was indeed a dispute, as recognised by Japan, even then.

            In addition, former US Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger affirmed that China and Japan had decided to temporarily lay aside the issue of Diaoyu Islands sovereignty, at the time of signing the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between Japan and the People’s Republic of China in 1978.

            Lastly but not least, Zheng Hailin, a Chinese scholar, went to Japan to study history and international law in the 1990s and bought a Japanese Map there. The map was published in 1876 by Japan’s Army Staff Bureau and doesn’t have Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands on it. According to international law, a country’s official map has legal effect over its territorial claims, and Zheng’s map clearly denies all claims that the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands are Japan’s territory.

          • Whirled Peas

            This 1876 map wouldn’t have had the Senkakus on it because Japan did not annex it until 1895!

          • Truth

            LOL! Let’s see if that shuts him up now.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            Precisely, the islands had all along belong to China.

          • Whirled Peas

            Well, that is debatable from the point of view of ownership being determined based upon having had effective control. Also, what weakens China’s claim is the fact that China recognized Japan’s ownership for decades prior to asserting it’s claim only after oil was discovered. Anyway, if China feels it has strong arguments and evidence for ownership it should file for an ICJ hearing.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            China has long contested Japan’s effective control of the islands and blames the U.S. for placing the rocky outcrops under the control of Japan in the 1970′s. The Diaoyu Islands should have been returned to China in the San Francisco Peace treaty signed in 1951 between Japan and the Allied powers. Instead, the US included it into Okinawa and put the prefecture under US administration. It was an expedient move. As such, the resolution cannot be in ICJ, but through a war. And the war is not yet. US and Japan are mindful of that. It is not all surprising when the war starts, whether by accident or intentionally.

          • Whirled Peas

            China started contesting Japan’s effective control only since 1971. That is not a long time considering the islands were owned and controlled by Japan since 1895. China and Taiwan were not signatories to the SF Peace Treaty because there were “two Chinas” at that moment in time and Allies couldn’t agree on which to invite. Nevertheless, China read the treaty and launched a protest in which she gave her opinion that the Spratley, Pratas and Paracels should be put under China’s control. China made no mention of the Senkakus because they were not in question. The US included the Senkakus with Okinawa/Ryukyu islands because they had long been part of Japan’s Okinawa Prefecture and the idea behind Occupation was to occupy all of Japan’s territory. In 1972, US was merely returning Okinawa (including the Senkakus). The fact a Diaoyu movement and its belated new claim arose around 1971 did not obligate Nixon and the US Congress to break a long-standing agreement with Japan and not return the Senkakus, The compromise was US took a neutral stance on ownership and returned “administrative control.” There is nothing nefarious about that. The proper procedure now is for China to contest Japan’s ownership in the ICJ.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            You need to look at the history, geography and international law pertaining to the islands. With divergent views from both China and Japan, there is indeed a dispute over the islands. Japan had lied when she said that there is no dispute. Even Charles W. Freeman, a retired American diplomat and expert on China affairs affirmed that China’s late paramount leader Deng Xiaoping was wise to shelve the dispute over the Diaoyutai Islands in the 1970s to facilitate establishment of diplomatic ties with Japan.

          • Truth

            We’ve covered the “no dispute” question here already. It’s a legal point of view. Japan does not dispute its ownership or sovereignty of the islands.

            If China disputes it, then it needs to take the matter to the International Court of Justice.

            Japan cannot do so because it already has legal ownership or sovereignty.

            It’s a question of law and procedure.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            Even the US does not recognise that Japan has sovereignty over Diaoyu/Senkaku islands. You are confusing sovereignty with administrative control. It was a backroom deal between US and Japan in the 1970′s, when US handed over the administrative control of the islands to Japan. However, China does not recognise Japan’s “control” over the islands.

          • Chinditone3

            There is a very good factual ChinaDaily article which expalins how Japan used their annexation of Taiwan in 1895 to grab and steal the Diaoyiu and do do a “backroom deal” with the US to gain adminstration ofver the Diaoyu in 1972. It exposes all Japan’s arguments as a pack of lies. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2012-10/10/content_15808278.htm

          • Chinditone3

            Even Henry Kissenger recognizes that teh US has no right to interfere in the Diaoyu matter – as he knows that the Jpanese have no legal right to the Diaoyou’s. If it comes out that the US supports the Jpanese over their unlawful acquisition of the Diaoyou’s then the whole US Pivot based on the rule of law will be shown up to be the pack of lies it actually is!! http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Senkaku+Islands+should+remain+Japan-China+issue%3A+Kissinger.-a0307073556

          • Taiwanese

            Hi James,

            To even strengthen your point,I quote South China Morning Post report:
            “Yohei Kono, former speaker of the House of Representatives, told the Japanese monthly magazine Sekai that Japan and China had agreed to maintain the status quo on the disputed islands. He called on the Japanese government to “make proper gestures or release appropriate information”.
            This injunction to “release appropriate information” is equally applicable to the Chinese side. If there are documents that show that leaders of the two countries agreed in the 1970s to shelve the issue, now is the time to make them public.”

            Deng was well known on his pragmatism but a lot of people ignores that he was a hardliner on sovereignty issue. Remember Iron Lady Thatcher trying to persuade him on HK future and she got a tough reply from Deng which made her stumbled on the steps of Great Hall of the People in Beijing.

            When Deng attended the joint conference and express that two parties should shelve the issue and “believed that next geneneration are smarter than us they can find a better solution.” His counterpart didn’t deny and then the Japanese media didn’t have any objection to his proposal at all.

          • Whirled Peas

            Whether or not there was formal agreement to “shelve the issue” as per Deng’s suggestion. If anyone UNSHELVED the issue it was China. After approx. 20 years of status quo over Senkakus, China In February 1992 created a new document declaring sovereignty over the Senkakus. This was a very provocative act. The document was called “Law of the People’s Republic of China on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone .” China also UNSHELVED the issue when it started incursions into Japanese waters 2010 and before. When Japan tried to shoo the boats out of Senkaku waters and hold trespassers China had an apoplectic fit, like it was the victim. These actions pushed certain forces in Japan to get very defensive and protective, threatening the Japanese government to take over the islands and build on it. I am talking about ex-Tokyo Mayor Ishihara. To control the situation the Japanese government blocked Ishihara by purchasing the islands themselves. China has to realize that its actions have consequences (like pushing Japanese public opinion to a more protective and nationalistic stance) instead of pointing fingers to Japan’s actions, which occurred in response to the China’s initial trespasses.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            Charles W. Freeman, a retired American diplomat and expert on China affairs stated that China’s late paramount leader Deng Xiaoping was wise to shelve the dispute over the Diaoyutai Islands in the 1970s to facilitate establishment of diplomatic ties with Japan. Also, Professor Yabuki Susumu (矢吹晋), professor emeritus of Yokohama City University, affirmed that there was an agreement between the then leaders of China and Japan in 1972, to shelve the dispute over Senkaku/Diaoyu issue for future generations to solve.

          • Whirled Peas

            I repeat here what I wrote above regarding what I think “NO DISPUTE” means. Maybe you missed it. This isn’t the easiest forum to navigate.

            ~ “Oh, you were referring to the puzzling phrase “there is no dispute.”
            Yes, obviously China is contesting the ownership of the islands, albeit
            75 years after Japan’s claim. I think the phrase indicates a certain
            legal stance on the issue that goes something like this: ~ “The islands
            are indisputably Japan’s, and the ownership of the island is not
            something that can be bi-laterally negotiated. But that does not
            restrict China from filing an application for a hearing with the
            International Court of Justice (to which it can bring all its
            arguments); nor does it mean Japan and China cannot discuss some joint
            use of the waters around the island.” Note that Korea’s stance on the
            Dokdos is “there is no dispute.” But when Japan filed an application
            for the case to be brought to the ICJ, Korea rejected it. I could be
            wrong about the meaning of “there is no dispute.”~
            .

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            Both Hatoyama, former Japan’s Prime Minister and Charles W. Freeman, a retired American diplomat and expert on China affairs, affirmed that a dispute exist over Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands. So, just accept the facts.

          • Whirled Peas

            We’re arguing semantics here. I’ve said before, of course Japan is aware that China has made a claim. The fact is Japan has possession, China is the disputant. So if China wants resolution she should bring her case to the International Court of Justice. If she wins, the islands will be hers.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            China is not agreeable to go to ICJ. The only resolution is time and a war. Both US and Japan are mindful of that when both entered into a mutual Defense Security Treaty. And with the 2013 Defense Authorisation Act, US and Japan have subtly declared war on China. Currently, both are busy forming an anti-China military alliances in Asia, coinciding with US’ declared pivot to Asia.

          • Whirled Peas

            The other resolution is for China to drop this claim. If China refuses to go to ICJ it means she is not totally confident her claim is legitimate, and if it is not legitimate she should find a way to gracefully back off. Some forces in China might actually want to back off on this oil claim, but it is difficult now that a whole generation has been brought up being told the Senkakus are China’s. Yes, anyone born around 1971 or after, will not even remember a time when they were not being told Senkakus are China’s like a mantra. And now with all the propaganda, if you are to be a good Chinese person you must believe Senkakus are China’s. That was not always the case. Believe me, the Chinese didn’t even think about Senkakus before oil was discovered. It was not on their radar.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            Whether i am a Chinese or not, is irrelevant.

            I hate unrighteous nations and to me, US and Japan are such nations. If you cannot accept the facts that was presented by China in its White Paper after its representation in UN, and is adamant in your position, there will be no end to the discussion.

            As China is not comfortable with ICJ and ris not agreeable to take the case to ICJ, does not mean that she does not have a legitimate claim.

            The only resolution is time and a war. And the war is not yet. When the war starts, it may escalate into WW3, as there are nations ready to take part in the war.

          • Chinditone3

            I hope its not a war. Japan’s economy would not survive a war – nor would teh US’s?

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            US and Japan have formed anti-China military alliances to contain China’s rise. This will only provoke China to a war.

            WW3 is inevitable and many will die in the war. Following which, a New World Order will emerge.

          • Chinditone3

            I am not sure – I thinks its all about the economy. The US can’t afford the massive $900 billion annual Pentagon bill – for doing nothing – and the Pentagon has to justify its existence for doing nothing!!

            The US position reminds me of an old nursery rhyme about a useless Duke with a useless army. Useless because it won’t be used – as the US economy desperately needs China for both its manufacturing and economic growth. The US has pinned its economic future on Asia – which is what the Pivot is actually about – the military aspects is for idiots. IMO.

            Oh, The grand old Duke of York,
            He had ten thousand men;
            He marched them up to the top of the hill,
            And he marched them down again.

            And when they were up, they were up,
            And when they were down, they were down,
            And when they were only half-way up,
            They were neither up nor down.

            The US president does not know what to do with himself except play with his military and play strategy games. The President can’t fix the economy – which is down to Bernanke and Lew – and so create’s stregies like the TPP – and tries to hide US proctectionalism by blaming China or accusing China of hacking to stop Chinese firms gaining share in US market. Its a very frightened and negative strategy which is bound to fail in the long run.

            However, the US economy is slowiy clawing its way back to respectability – but it still has a deficit with China. In other words – China is competing and running its economy better than the US – without pouring all its money drown a Pentagon Drain. The US economy would be up in smoke again – if the US was stupid enough to get involved in any war or allow the Pentagon to swindle the US into another war. http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/us-trade-deficit-narrowed-to-43-billion-in-february-as-exports-rose-and-oil-imports-fell/2013/04/05/afef23c8-9ded-11e2-9219-51eb8387e8f1_story.html

          • Whirled Peas

            I’m not speaking about your particular ethnicity. I do not assume anyone’s ethnicity on this forum just because they might have a certain name. My point is that even if some forces in China want to drop this claim it would be difficult since the CCP has pushed the line that Senkakus are Chinas since 1971 and so Chinese in China have been trained to believe it. Japan did not steal the islands, and though the US certainly has its faults, there was no “conspiracy” to give the islands to Japan. I repeat, the islands were occupied as part of Japanese territory after 1945 and the US returned them as planned. It will be very sad if China starts a war just because it wants what it wants.

          • Chinditone3

            Why should China ever drop the claim as the islands belong to China – and have done since the 1300′s? They are part of China’s sovereign territory.

            http://wiki.china.org.cn/wiki/index.php/Diaoyu_Island

            Japan sneakily stole the Diaoyou in 1895 – aftre Japan had annexed Taiwan – and have been trying to hang on to them by stealth since the Potsdam Declaration . Japan is in the hot seat over the Diaoyou – not China.

            It still amazes me what people OK in the name of Nationalism. THEFT – RAPE – MURDER. This is why everyone is so wary of the Japanese Right Wingers – as its looking a return to the nasty habits of WW2!!

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            You have missed the point completely. You are repeating the same old point and cannot get passed the fact that the islands belong to China. That’s your fault.

          • Chinditone3

            WP is refusing to speak to me – as I busted him ages ago for refusing to read and acknowledge the evidence that states that China in fact owns the Diaoyou. The diffilculty for Japanese Nationalists is that thChina was forced to hand over the Diaoyou’s as part of the Treaty that handed over Tiawan. The Terra Nullis is a scrokescreen and a Japanese effort to cover their tracks – as the Japnforcus.org link I posted below shows. Potsdam Declaration went against Jpan – and everything thereafter is basically the US illegally witholding the Diaoyiu from China as part of their Cold War effort – and illegally handing them over to Japan to administer in 1972. The whole Diaoyou Island theft scam process does in show you how corrupt the US is – and how phoney all the talk about rule of law in their Asia Pivot is. Maybe Japan has told the US – as they did in 1951 – if Japan loses the Diaoyu – the US loses the Okinawa Air Base!! The whole Diaoyu issue reeks of US/Japan corruption. IMO.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            US and Japan have no desire to recognise any of China’s claim to sovereignty over Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands, even disregarding Potsdam Declaration, a post-war international order. Their intention is simply, the continual containment of Chinese military expansion within the first island chain, so as to create a chokepoint against China, in the East China Sea.
            Another ulterior motive of Japan in controlling Diaoyu Islands is an attempt to rewrite history, if it were possible, to erase the history that it lost WW2 and to hold on to territories that it stole or took with violence, from China. However, history is not to be reversed and the world is to be reminded that Japan had lost WW2. And so, China must enforce the post-war international order of The Potsdam Declaration which says particularly that the territories of China which were occupied by Japan before WW2 must return to China.
            Consequently, as Japan is unwilling to restore the islands to China, as required to do so by two WW2 treaties, China must take forceful measures, which include war, to possess and control Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands.

          • Whirled Peas

            Fault? Why boil this conversation down to my fault or your fault. We are just two random people on the Internet expressing differing opinions. I could also say that same to you about repeating points, like your assertion that Japan is guilty of changing the status quo, to which I then am obliged to counter with the fact that it was China who changed her Law on Territories in 1992 and started incursions into Japanese waters in the 2000′s. . So yes, I’d say we are both getting repetitious, and we’ve come to an impasse in our conversation, at least for now. But to put things into perspective, this conversation is only cyber-reality. The real world is more dynamic, and I hope that TIME will bring “stars into alignment ” in a way that will result in a peaceful resolution. All best, WP

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            You just cannot accept China’s position that the islands belong to China, and so, all your discussion is focused on putting Japan’s position as the truth, when in fact they are lies.
            Charles W. Freeman, a retired American diplomat and expert on China affairs, mentioned that China’s late paramount leader Deng Xiaoping was wise to shelve the dispute over the Diaoyutai Islands in the 1970s to facilitate establishment of diplomatic ties with Japan. And Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times wrote: “I find the evidence for Chinese sovereignty quite compelling. The most interesting evidence is emerging from old Japanese government documents and suggests that Japan in effect stole the islands from China in 1895 as booty of war.”

          • Whirled Peas

            James, I have done quite a bit of research on this issue and yes, I have concluded that Japan has the better case for ownership. You have done research and you have come to the opposite conclusion. I keep telling you again and again, the it was China who actually changed the status quo, not Japan. You cannot accept that fact. Japan bought the islands because of China’s continued infringement on waters, which destabilized the situation. China might wish that Senkaku belongs to them, but the way to prove ownership is not to sail into that territory’s waters and harrass the country that has possession. The way to challenge is legally, through the ICJ. You cannot seem to understand that. You keep repeating how wise Deng was. Well, China should have followed his advice, instead of escalating. I’ve also already said the Senkakus were NOT booty of war and explained why I think that. You were right in your other post that we are repeating ourselves. I think we should just agree to disagree, until we can find something new to say to each other that will move the conversation forward. Best, WP

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            I don’t know what research you had done. But one thing is clear, there was a dispute over the islands, and China and Japan agreed to shelve the dispute in 1970′s so as to normalise relations. That was the status quo till Japan created a farce to illegally purchase three of the islands and so, broke the status quo. Both Charles W. Freeman, a retired American diplomat and expert on China affairs, and Henry Kissinger, former US Secretary of State, affirmed that China and Japan had decided to temporarily lay aside the issue of Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands sovereignty in the 1970′s.
            And so, there is nothing to agreee to disagree, unless you are saying the above-mentioned persons had lied.

          • Whirled Peas

            You’re repeating yourself again. We’ve been through this. I have said at least three times in response to the above that IF there was indeed some kind of agreement to lay aside the issue of Senkaku/Diaoyu (which I have seen no real evidence of yet, including the video you posted of Kissinger),THEN guess what, it was NOT Japan that changed the status quo. It was CHINA that changed the status quo by for example having various vessels sail into Senkaku waters (e.g. 2010 when the fisherman rammed into a Japanese vessel and was taken into custody). How do you expect the Japanese to respond when CHINA repeatedly sent boats into Japanese waters it was seen as a provocative act that set off a chain reaction. China needs to understand that its actions indeed have consequences. China does not exist in a vacuum, nor is it the center of the Universe. If it wishes to be a global leader it needs to embrace modern international law. Many countries and people, including myself would welcome China’s leadership, but only if it does not regress into feudal ideologies and practices. .

          • Truth

            They don’t. They current belong to Japan. At law, sovereignty is established and lost in a variety of manners. Use, occupation and administration are all very strong ones.

            Medieval navigation journals are very weak ones, which is why China refuses to recognize the authority of the International Court of Justice.

            In short, even if China could established it once had sovereignty, legally one would say “use it or lose it” possession is 9/10 of the law is a truism that rings true.

            You can trust the Japanese bureaucrats and surveyors to have been very thoro during the 10 years of survey. That is their nature. They found no previous evidence of occupation.

            You are also ignoring, or perhaps are unaware of official Chinese references to the islands as Japanese both before and after WWII. China is current removing literally 10,000s of old map relating to their 20 or so territory disputes so as to curry public opinion on the matter and hide various truths.

            Ong is a popular name in Singapore, perhaps he is a Singaporean Hokkien. I wonder why a Singaporean would come down on the Chinese side but perhaps there are still plenty of old anti-Japanese sentiments in Singapore that we can discuss if anyone is interest.

            It may be the real reason for this dispute.

            There are lots of illegal Fujians coming into Japan via the Snakehead (jatoh) syndicate routes. They estimate perhaps 500,000. Many from Fuzhou. Funnily enough, most are actually middle class or quite wealthy by Chinese standards as the poor could not afford the Snakehead gang prices. They are involved in human smuggling, sex trafficking, forged pachinko cards and drugs etc. In the 90s, there was famous cases where they were selling school girls methamphetamine (so they could keep slim!).

            They commit the highest proportion of thefts and violent crimes of all foreigners in Japan. Some come on “thief holidays” especially to Japan because they know it is so rich and easy a place to steal in.

            Obviously I am not suggesting James is involved in all that but I have heard some older Singaporeans become very upset as the Japanese replacing the British as bosses. The Fall of Singapore was a great humiliation to the British friendly Singaporeans.

            Many of the Peranakan (Straits Chinese) were very happy and became very wealthy under the British. They did not even speak Chinese any more.

            Expect all the usual statistical exaggerations, and arguments, about how bad the Japanese Army was.

          • Truth

            I’d like to tell one funny story about that part of the war.

            The British saw Singapore as their “Gibraltar on the Far East” and the Elite had a very fine time there, including enjoying the women.

            At the time, they looked down at the Japanese in a racist manner and thought they were poor fighters only good for fighting with the even worse Chinese and useless against the mighty British Army. They Singaporeans were confident that the British Army could defend them and prepared for an attack from the sea.

            The Japanese were aware of this so they attacked by land at great speed. How did they do so?

            They used bicycles as the main form of transport!!! The Japanese were tough and used to travelling narrow country lanes and rice paddy tracks by bicycle, it was just like being at home.

            However, that’s not the joke. The joke is this …

            When the British heard the noise of all the bicycle approaching from their rear where they were poorly defended …

            they thought it was the noise of tanks and so they ran out to surrender!!!

            If you imagine the noise of 100s of old bicycles and the noise of tank tracks, you can see why they did so.

            Anyway, that is the story of how the Whites were kicked out of Singapore — 550 miles in 55 days and only two divisions riding on stolen bicycles with no artillery support and they beat the British! The Japanese were damned tough in those days.

            It was shock for the Singaporeans to see their White gods fall so easily.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            As Japan had broken the status quo with China, which was to shelve the dispute of Diaoyu Islands, Japan had betrayed China.

            China had never recognised Japan’s “control,” and when Japan created a farce to illegally purchase three of the islands, China had no choice but to send its Marine Surveillance Ships to patrol the waters of Diaoyu Islands. In essence, the relationship between China and Japan cannot be normal, and islands will continuously be in dispute, as it was when China and Japan agreed to shelve the dispute in the 1970′s. By shelving the dispute, China’s intention was to focus on its economic growth and improving bilateral relationship with Japan. But, with Japan’s betrayal, China has now to channel some of its attention to the disputed islands.

            Japan has never had sovereignty over the islands, and never will. Even the US does not recognise Japan’s sovereignty over the islands. Now, US and Japan are acting like gangsters in attempting to control the islands. With the 2013 Defense Authorisation Act, US and Japan had subtly declared war on China. And the only resolution is a war and the war is yet to come. The war is inevitable.

          • Truth

            We’ve cross that bridge before in these discussions. You’ve swallowed the proganda without questioning it.

            You refer to Deng Xiaoping statement I presume. There was no “agreement”, no “status quo”. No nothing.

            He could have just passed gas and it would have meant as much.

            Some quarters have tried to pass his unilateral statement off as an “agreement” merely because Japan did not respond to it. Why should they?

            Image … you own an old car. When you legally acquired it, it was worth nothing and no one else wanted it. All of a sudden it is worth a lot of money and a gangster walks up to you and says, “that’s my car but I won’t fight for it yet”. Now the gangster and his gang did not even exist when you acquired the vehicle …

            What are you going to do or say?

            Saying nothing an “agreement” with the gangster. The status quo is that Japan holds sovereign rights.

            The historical problem between China and Japan is that China always considered itself to be the center of the entire world. It thinks that the sun shines out of its ass and so, consequently, it can do what it want and not subject itself to any International Law.

            Hence the one fingered salute the Japanese gave the then Chinese Emperor regarding ‘The Land of the Rising Sun”.

            I apologize for the crude references but I do not consider the CPC to be the true inheritors of Chinese property and culture. I consider them to be the most violent and corrupt gangsters the world has ever known (with American racing up to become a close second). Historical facts support that theory.

            The Senkakus were legal acquired by following the protocols of International Law. If China does not like that, the place to resolve the dispute is in the International Court of Justice.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            The two WW2 treaties are legally written up and accepted by the loser of WW2, Japan. And so, if US and Japan have no respect for treaties of WW2, then ICJ will not help. US and Japan are dishonourable nations. That is why the only resolution is time and a war. The war is inevitable and is yet to come.

          • Truth

            Firstly, Potsdam was a Declaration or Agreement, not a treaty and the Senkaku Islands were not mentioned in either. They have no bearing on issues of sovereignty. Issues of sovereignty require a different and more important type of agreement.

            It’s difficult to consider the quality of life and status of Japan in the world today as “losing” … and Asia has Japan to thank for being free of European Imperialists.

            If it was not for Japan, all the other nations would still be enslaved, so Japan paid a high price for the rest of Asia.

            And it’s a shame Asia did not fight with Japan against American, because if they had, now Asia would not be enslaved to it.

            Japan did it’s very best despite knowing it was basically doomed from the beginning, and surprised everyone. The only way to gain respect from nations like the USA and Great Britain was to fight back. The only way to earn power is to take it.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            Japan is an aggressor and warmonger. Had any Asian nation joined Japan to fight the Allied nations in WW2, they would have been nuked likewise.
            Japan deserved to be nuked and more atomic bombs would have been dropped on it, had it not agreed to surrender. But, the surprising part is that Japan surrendered because it was ravaged by Russia, when the latter captured Manchuria and Kuril islands. Today, Japan and Russia is still technically at war, as no peace treaty was signed between them. Kuril Islands belong to Russia today.

          • Chinditone3

            Actually it is Jpan and Noda which is refusing to go to the ICJ as you well know. Japan was happy to take Korea to the ICJ over the Dodko – but refused to take China to the ICJ over the Diaoyu. Only a fool would not smell or rat or know that Japan is with good reason frightened of going to the ICJ. http://www.china.org.cn/world/2012-10/01/content_26687048.htm

            Why China doesn’t China go to the ICJ? China has its reasons – and is no doubt slowly turning the screw on the Diaoyou to expose US hypocrisy and to waste US money defending a pile of rocks. Chuck Hagel today cut the Pentagon budget – how can te US afford the Asia pivot – as they are bankrupt? Perhaps China is encouraging them to bankrupt themselves quciker? Who knows?

          • Chinditone3

            There is an excellent article looking at who legally owns teh Diayou – and it looks as though China has the law on its side. Japan has effectively stolen the islands – with a little backroom dealing from the USA. http://www.japanfocus.org/-Fang-Ming/3877

          • Truth

            I am afraid your propaganda has no grounds in reality and you overlook the most simple logic..

            The UN proposed that there probably gas and oil reserves in 1968. Prior to that China and Taiwan had no interest in a few rocks covered in bird shit.

            All of a sudden, China and then Taiwan decided they wanted a cut, not of the bird shit but any oil and gas.

            That is why the issue then arose in the 1970s.

            As pointed out to you, Japan did not assert sovereign rights over the no man’s land until 1895 and so any map before then would not show the no man’s land as Japan’s.

            A briefing paper for Henry Kissinger in 1972 stated that the Security Treaty between Japan and the would apply to the Senkakus and a US defense official reconfirmed this to the head of the Japanese Defense Agency.

          • Far East

            1876? Of course since then, at that time, it belonged to no one. It was legally Terra Nullius! ;-) face the reality. It belongs tomJaan andis under direct and effective control of Japan.

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            You sure live in a world of lies, distorting facts.

          • Far East

            Dude, seriously. Whatever.

          • Whirled Peas

            There was absolutely no ambiguity about the islands in 1972. Japan was clear that the islands belonged to Japan. It was not till oil was found in 1968 that Taiwan and China worked overtime to try to find a rationale for claiming the islands. In 1971 activists put out very public statements. Tanaka mentioned the islands to Zhou in the 1972 meeting, because he was aware of various activists trying to claim Japan’s territory. Zhou didn’t want to talk about it and said the issue would have arisen except for the OIL.

          • Whirled Peas

            *would NOT have arisen”

          • http://www.facebook.com/jamesobh James Ong

            You sure put forward a nice movie script.

            But, the reality is that there is a dispute over the islands. Even Yuri Hatoyama, Japan’s former Prime Minister admitted that there exist a dispute over the islands. “If we look at the historical facts, there is indeed a disagreement,” admitted Hatoyama: “Both parties must find a solution and we must admit that there are conflicting points of views. We will never find a solution if we stay in complete denial.”

          • Whirled Peas

            Oh, you were referring to the puzzling phrase “there is no dispute.” Yes, obviously China is contesting the ownership of the islands, albeit 75 years after Japan’s claim. I think the phrase indicates a certain legal stance on the issue that goes something like this: ~ “The islands are indisputably Japan’s, and the ownership of the island is not something that can be bi-laterally negotiated. But that does not restrict China from filing an application for a hearing with the International Court of Justice (to which it can bring all its arguments); nor does it mean Japan and China cannot discuss some joint use of the waters around the island.” Note that Korea’s stance on the Dokdos is “there is no dispute.” But when Japan filed an application for the case to be brought to the ICJ, Korea rejected it. I could be wrong about the meaning of “there is no dispute.”

          • Chinditone3

            There was 100% ambiguity as declassified records showed that the US knew tha there were other claimants. The US and Richard Nixon used this ambiguity to extort concessions out of Jpan – ie Jpan reducing cotton exports to the US – in return for the US handing adminsitration rights of the Diaoyou over to Japan. The US actted illegally and beyond their remit!! http://www.thefreelibrary.com/U.S.+considered+withholding+return+of+Senkaku+Islands+to+Japan.-a0109021656

          • Whirled Peas

            One doesn’t have to look at declassified records to know that the US knew that China was claiming the islands 75 years after they were annexed legally by Japan. The US is not claiming ignorance of the issue. The declassified documents don’t tell us anything we didn’t already know.After oil was discovered, China and Taiwan set to work trying to figure out how to get their hands on the oil and came up with a set of arguments they hoped would fly. They PUBLICLY announced their position in a New York Times article May, 1971 and asked Nixon not to return the islands to Japan in the upcoming Okinawa Reversion. For a hot minute the US tried to opportunistically use this new claim to threaten Japan with the possibility of not returning the islands if they didn’t reduce cotton exports. But as I’ve repeatedly said the arbitration of territorial challenge of one foreign government to another is not the purview of the executive and legislative branches.of the US government. Those issues are arbitrated in the International Court of Justice. In the end, Nixon/Congress followed procedure and returned the islands, but made the concession to the activists by declaring their neutrality on the issue. Part of the reason for the concession was the US was about to normalize relations with China and he didn’t want this issue to take precedence. China and Taiwan should not expect that just because they took out a full-page ads in NYT in 1971 and had a few demonstrations that the US would change the outcome of a long-standing agreement to return the islands. The proper venue for handling international territorial matters is the ICJ. China and Taiwan are free to file.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Bras/100000593270414 Jason Bras

    i love poker.

  • Sunil Nair

    Peace is the need of the hour. Historical events have proven beyond doubt to both Japan and China that war is not a solution to any issue – geopolitical or economical .The gains if any are short-lived and meaningless in the long run. In a millennium which belongs to Asia , energy of these great nations must be used for mutually assured growth not mutually assured destruction.

  • appleaction

    Japan was never near the islands until they annexed a sovereign kingdom. after doing that, they set their eyes on Chinese islands. course they did not make the claim until after winning a war with China. it was well played for the Japanese Empire. of course such gains would never be permanent before the Chinese. and here we are. Chinese ships go there all the time and the Japanese cant do a thing about it. you brought this on yourselves.

    • Guest

      CN ships go there all the time? LOL. They are just sneaking in or trespassing.

      If the island was CN then what made CN was so quiet when the island was annexed by JP? We are talking about 76 yrs here? Because CN was so weak at that time, another LOL. Isn’t Philippines, VN, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia are much weaker than CN? Do they keep silent to let CN takes the whole South CN Sea or Spratly? LMAO.

    • Truth

      Both Japanese and Ryukyuans had used the islands as markers whilst navigating for about 1200 years before hand.

      The official surveying of the terra nullius according to International Law started in 1884.

      To which “sovereign kingdom” do you refer?

      Japan won’t do anything aggressive as it would weaken it’s case in the International Court of Justice, when China finally accepts International Law and its jurisdiction.

      • StrategicSafe

        There is no doubt that China has a strong historical claim over the Diaoyu Island.

        1. China named the island “Diaoyu” in 1403.

        2. early 19th century Japanese maps marked the island as belonging to China.

        3. When Japan took the Kingdom of Ryukyu by force in 1879 (and renamed it Okinawa), it officially recognized that the Diaoyu sland was not part of Ryukyu–according to a well-known Japanese historian.

        4. It was only when Japan took Taiwan by force from China in 1895, Japan claimed that it “discovered” the Diaoyu Island, and subsequently renamed “Senkaku”.

        5. Cairo Declaration 1943 and Potsdam Declaration 1945 dictated that Japan should not only return Taiwan to China, including the Diaoyu Island, which was administratively part of Taiwan, but give up its occupation of Ryukyu, which should become independent.

        6. The U.S. occupied Ryukyu and the Diaoyu Island 1945 to 1971 and handed the administration of these islands to Japan in 1972, in spite of strong protests from both the Chinese mainland and the Republic of China in Taiwan. The U.S. appears to have deliberately created a dispute between China and Japan.

        7. The U.S., however, did inform its ally in Taiwan that allowing Japan to administer the islands does not mean to recognize Japanese sovereignty over them, and that the U.S. does not take side in the territorial disputes.

        8. When Japan switched diplomatic relations with China from Taipei to Beijing, it agreed with China to put aside this dispute, leaving the island unmanned and demilitarized. Several recent incidents seem to indicate that Japan is abandoning this agreement with China–reached in the 1970s. This is dangerous because it will justify a strong Chinese response and dramaticly escalate the tension.

        • Truth

          There is more than doubt. There is a legal document created according to International Law.

          By the same logic, I am waiting to hear you tell us how, on the basis of the Mo Yi Tong map made in the 16th year of the Emperor Yongle (1418), China also owns Australia and America.

          Let’s unpick this according to real history.

          Japan did not “take Taiwan by force”. It was ‘legally’ cede by China before Japan went to it in April 1895, when Japan kicked the Imperialist China out of Korea and forced it to recognized the total independence of Korea.

          Despite that ‘legally’ binding agreement, renegade Qing officials in Taiwan refused to acknowledge the ‘legal’ agreement made under the Treaty of Shimonoseki, The Japanese arrived a month later in May 1895.

          However, the Government of Japan had already made the Cabinet Decision in January 1895 to ‘legally’ incorporate the islands under the administration of Okinawa.

          So your dates are all wrong.

          There was no evidence to suggest that they had ever been ‘legally’ under the Qing empire’s control.

          Chinese maps also had Japan on them and had named other foreign territories. That does not mean they owned them.

          There was no ‘legal’ agreement in the 1970s. None of the previous treaties and declarations have the ‘legal authority’ to determine sovereignty.

          Note my emphasis, time and time again, of ‘legally’. In the C21st, China needs to learn to finally accept ‘International Law’. If it has an international problem, it must take that problem to the ‘International Court of Justice’.

          Does that not seem right and proper to you?

          Why would it not go to the ‘International Court of Justice’ if it was so confident of its ‘legal’ rights?

          • StrategicSafe

            The Potsdam and Cairo declaration validated China’s right to reassess
            what was “Japanese territory”. As one of Japan’s closest neighbor, China
            would have the most bearing and legitimacy to say what is Japan’s vs.
            not Japan’s. China made it clear that it was not Japanese territory,
            thus invalidating your sovereign claims. I’m not sure why its so hard
            for you to accept this, but unconditional surrender is … unconditional.
            Sucks to be the loser.

        • Whirled Peas

          I will try to address your 8 points, starting with #8.

          #8. WHO UN-SHELVED THE ISSUE? It is debatable whether or not there was an official agreement made 1972 between Japan and China to put aside the question of the Senkakus (which Japan controlled), but in practice the issue remained status quo for around 20 years. That changed drastically when CHINA itself abandoned the agreement to maintain the status quo. In 1992 China introduced its new Territorial Waters Law, in which it declared that the Senkakus islands, controlled by Japan, now belonged to China. See excerpt of Article 1 below:

          “The land territory of the People’s Republic of China includes the mainland of the People’s Republic of China and its coastal islands; TAIWAN and all islands appertaining thereto including the DIAOYU Islands; the Penghu Islands; the Dongsha Islands; the Xisha Islands; the Zhongsha Islands and the Nansha Islands; as well as all the other islands belonging to the People’s Republic of China”

          Now if Article 1 of the 1992 Territorial Waters Law isn’t a blatant act by China to change the status quo. I don’t what is! Didn’t China think others would notice? And in line with China’s attempt to change the status quo by adding Senkakus to their list of territory, China has intensified its maritime activities around the islands — all the while claiming innocently that it honors the status quo that “wise Uncle Deng” sagaciously proposed back in 1972! Since 2008, China has sent numerous government vessels to trespass Senkaku waters, thus infringing Japanese control. And when Japan rightly responds by chasing them away or holding them for question, China cries foul! China’s claim that it was Japan that changed status quo when it purchased the islands from a private owner is completely BOGUS. It is just a cover for their own attempts since at least 1992 to obtain the islands by violating the status quo via all forms of deception. And Japan’s purchase of the islands is just an excuse for China to intensify its trespassing activities. No China does not have the moral ascendency, I’m afraid.

          Notice too that in 1992 China also claimed Taiwan and the Penghus belong to China, as though merely announcing a thing makes it a reality. Does Taiwan agree that it is part of China’s territory?

          … On to your points 1 through 7:

          #1. THE NAME GAME. Naming geographical features does not mean you own them. China also had a Chinese name for Japan. That doesn’t mean China owned Japan. And when Christopher Columbus sailed to the Americas he named many an island and rock and trough, but that did not confer ownership on Spain.

          2. MAPS OLD AND NEW. For every old map China claims shows China owned the Senkakus, there is a modern map that shows PRC and ROC recognized Japan owned the Senkakus (until they started changing maps in the 1970s after oil was found. Also, articles in the People’s Daily in the 1950s shows PRC assumed Senkakus were under Japan’s jurisdiction (technically under US
          control until restored to Japan).

          3 &4. TIMETABLE OF ANNEXATIONS IS NOT RELEVANT. Japan never claimed that it annexed the Senkakus at the same time Japan annexed the other Ryukyu Islands in 1879. Japan annexed the Senkakus later (January 1895) and put them UNDER THE ADMINISTRATION of the closest prefecture, which was Okinawa Prefecture. And Japan does not claim it “discovered” Senkaku in 1895. Okinawans/Ryukyuans had sailed the waters for centuries. In 1884 an Okinawa fisherman who had fished the area started petitioning the government to formally annex the islands so his family could establish a dried bonito business on the islands.

          5. TREATIES, TREATIES, TREATIES The Cairo Declaration 1943 and the Potsdam Declaration 1945 say nothing about the Senkakus. They do mention Taiwan and Penghus, both of which Japan renounced. Japan faithfully carried out the terms of the Potsdam Terms of Surrender under the watchful eye of the Allies. Remember Japan was the defeated party!

          AND SENKAKUS WERE NEVER PART OF TAIWAN. The Senkaku islands were never administered byTaiwan — neither before Japan annexed the Senkakus (Jan 1895) nor after. Taiwan itself was not made an official province until 1887 with Liu Ming-ch’uan as its governor. (This was 200 years after China’s first incursions on to the island) Eight years later, China ceded Taiwan and Penghus to Japan. And up to that point Hoping was recognized as Taiwan’s northern-most island. It was not until ca. 1905 that the three islets north of Hoping (Huaping, Pengjia and Mianhua) were incorporated into Taiwan. (References: Republic of China’s official documents (History of Keelung City 1954) and A Summarized History of Taiwan Municipal Governments, 1965). These islets are much closer to Taiwan proper than the Senkakus. After 1895 Senkakus were off-limits for claiming. Anyone sailing around the Senkakus from 1895 to 1945 would have seen all the business activity on the Senkakus and could clearly see it was under Japanese control. After 1945 the US occupied the Senkakus and used them for target practice.

          But again, the Senkakus were never “war loot” and so were not an issue. The Allied leader of the ROC, General Chiang-kai Shek, did NOT raise concerns about the Senkakus when it was agreed in 1945 that the US would occupy all of Japan’s territory, including the Senkakus. And neither PRC nor ROC protested they owned the Senkakus in at the time PRC protested not being invited to the 1951/1952 SF Treaty. Whereas in its protest (1951) PRC did claim Spratly, Paracels and Pratas should go to China, there was no mention of Senkakus. The upshot is neither PRC nor ROC started claiming the Senkakus belonged to them until after OIL was discovered in 1968. Even Chou En Lai stated if it weren’t for the oil, there wouldn’t be an issue.

          6 & 7. OKINAWA REVERSION. The claims by PRC and ROC that they owned the Senkakus surfaced close to when the restoration of Japan’s property was about to go into effect with the Okinawa Reversion Treaty (1971/1972). In May 1971 Diaoyu activists petitioned Pres. Nixon not to hand the Senkakus back to Japan as part of the Okinawa Reversion. But it was not and is not the place of the Executive Branch of the U.S to arbitrate international territorial challenges. And the context of the Okinawa Reversion was not the proper venue to evaluate or to act upon such challenges. The proper venue to make and decide territorial claims is the International Court of Justice. But since Nixon was about to visit China and open up relations with the PRC he and Congress worked out a way to somewhat placate the Diaoyu activists, which was to state the US is neutral and to give “administrative control” instead of sovereignty over the Senkakus to Japan. That said “administrative control” means the right to defend the islands from trespass of other countries. The US didn’t create the dispute. PRC and ROC are the one’s that raised a challenge 75 years after Japan’s legal annexation of the Senkakus in January 1895. If anything, the US did add some confusion with its “administrative control” designation. Some Diaoyu activists blame Nixon for “giving the islands” to Japan, but it was not his place to give or not. He was not the International Court of Justice. I urge PRC and ROC to take their case to the ICJ. That is the peaceful way to resolve this matter. WP

      • appleaction

        the Ryukyu Kingdom ‘navigated’ when going to pay tribute to China. after invading the sovereign Ryukyu Kingdom, Japan asked them if they had claim over the islands. they said it had NEVER been part of their territory. that is why Japan used the fictitious terra nullius. knowing full well it was on the Chinese side between China and Ryukyu Kingdom.

        • Truth

          China is talking about a medieval protection racket, not International Law.

          I have not heard Denmark claiming ownership of England recently just because the Vikings raided there and demanded Danegeld tax.

          Neither does having a name for an Island prove ownership under International Law.

          The conflict we have here is not between China and Japan. It is about China adopting to the modern world and accepting all that it includes, including human rights, democracy and International Law.

          It cannot keep living in a mythic, medieval past and trying to play by the vanity and whims of that age.

          I am sorry. It’s tough. But according to International Law Japan put in the right paperwork, in the right way first.

          • appleaction

            you failed to address any of the points. records on the tribute missions specifically cite the islands as being on the Chinese side, not Ryukyus. this is further supported by the fact Japan asked the Ryukyu Kingdom if the islands were theirs and they said no. and even further by the fact Japan insists it was terra nullius, meaning even Japan doesnt recognize Ryukyu Kingdom had the territory. of course it is a convenient half investigation because if they asked China they knew what they answer would be. the islands have always been between China and the Ryukyu Kingdom, only a joke investigation with zero interest for the truth asks one and not the other.

          • Truth

            Every point you or any of the other ‘forum astroturfers’ could raise have been answered time and time again.

            There is one simple answer … International Court of Justice.

            Why is China so afraid of the International Court of Justice?
            Why does China refuse to accept the authority of International Court of Justice?
            Why does China refuse democracy, human rights and international law?

          • appleaction

            hahahahaha 2/10

  • Radiation Retards Really Funny

    I think the radiation got to you “nippon” shit burger eating heads. From the greatest nation on earth, USA. Btw don’t drag us into bullshit or we’ll drop another “fat boy” on Japan, Tokyo this time.

    • Whirled Peas

      The US doesn’t get “dragged” into anything. It operates from it’s own perceived self-interest, and the US has its very own concerns with regard to Asia. If you are an American you must be aware of the US’s pivot toward Asia. The US, for its very own reasons, is concerned by China’s build up of its military,China’s increased aggressiveness toward her Asian neighbors, China’s lack of compliance with intellectual property rights laws, its knock-offs that flood the market, its hacking into American computer systems, etc. BTW talking about nuking other countries is just a lot of sick bravado. If you are eager for armed conflict then if you haven’t done so, I hope you will sign up for a couple of tours of duty in any of our armed forces. And I hope you have visited fellow Americans staying at Bethesda Naval Hospital where they are recovering from devastating injuries sustained on the front lines. Real war is a lot different from sitting at a computer playing World at War and munching on chips, now isn’t it.

      • Chinditone3

        Rubbish – the US is just a racist country frightened of losing its hegemony and becoming an equal nation among other nations. The US controls its puppet slave Japan – and gets Japan to do whatever the US wants. Look at the poor Okinawans – who don’t even have a right to peace – and are getting forced to build more US bases. The US is bankrupt and is just printing money to stay affloat and the Pentagon is rapidly dragging them into the poor house. Chuck Hagel is telling the Pentagon that the good times are over!! No more phoney wars or phoney enemies!! http://www.timesherald.com/article/20130403/NEWS04/130409819/defense-secretary-chuck-hagel-tells-military-to-brace-for-further-belt-tightening